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michael

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j40
Cantonese doesn't even have tone sandhi so it really doesn't matter that you hear two syllables separately or together.
If you can't find recordings that pronounce 2 syllables together, you can always hear the pronunciation of syllables separately.

What do you mean Cantonese doesn't have tone sandhi? How about examples like 靚女 (leng3 neui2) vs. 美女 (mei5 neui5) or 女人 (neui5 yan2) vs. just 人 (yan4). It may not be as formulaic as Mandarin, but I think Cantonese has plenty of tone sandhi (or maybe I am misunderstanding that word).

thanks,
--michael

The tone change in Cantonese is related to the change of meaning, which is more similar to the differences between WHITE house and white HOUSE in English. Therefore it is not tone sandhi.

Hello Everybody!

This is my first post. Wish you all well!
I've been trying to learn reading and writing chinese lately. I'm not sure what my level is, but it's very low. I know all the words in this site's CantoDict Level 1 words, and some level 2 words I can recognize. I find recognizing cantonese words very difficult, especially with the many different font types on the internet and word programs, I'm not sure which is the correct writing, actually...

How do you all learn to read/write chinese? What are your tips?

Thanks in advance!
Dark.

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canton168blog
Linguistic unity is important, but so is linguistic identity.

I'm not quite clear on why linguistic unity is important. Can someone explain? I'm not being sarcastic, there might be good reasons and I haven't thought a lot about it, but it seems to me that China fared quite well for thousands of years without linguistic unity, and countries like Switzerland seem to be doing fine without it in modern times, too. Why is the promotion of Mandarin so important?
This is from Wikipedia's article on language death:
"The most common process leading to language death is one in which a community of speakers of one language becomes bilingual in another language, and gradually shifts allegiance to the second language until they cease to use their original (or heritage) language. This is a process of assimilation which may be voluntary or may be forced upon a population. Speakers of some languages, particularly regional or minority languages, may decide to abandon them based on economic or utilitarian grounds, in favour of languages regarded as having greater utility or prestige."
Once a language loses its monolinguals, it's in peril. At least if it's part of a larger political entity like China. Just look at what happened to Manchu. It's down to eight living native speakers, and that's a language that was actively promoted by the government as the official court language of Qing dynasty China.

Cool, cheers, I think I get it. I'd seen 飯熟晒咁滯 before too (and similar sentences) and not really understood it, but now it makes sense.

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j40
Cantonese doesn't even have tone sandhi so it really doesn't matter that you hear two syllables separately or together.
If you can't find recordings that pronounce 2 syllables together, you can always hear the pronunciation of syllables separately.

What do you mean Cantonese doesn't have tone sandhi? How about examples like 靚女 (leng3 neui2) vs. 美女 (mei5 neui5) or 女人 (neui5 yan2) vs. just 人 (yan4). It may not be as formulaic as Mandarin, but I think Cantonese has plenty of tone sandhi (or maybe I am misunderstanding that word).

thanks,
--michael

Promoting Mandarin is good, but at the same time I believe they should encourage them to speak their own language at the same time. When children are young, they can learn multiple languages with ease. There's no problem with them learning proper pronunciation. People who say otherwise don't know what they're saying. I have no accent in my English nor do I have any accent in my Cantonese because my parents learned from a friend "Afraid your child's not going to know English? HA! Be more afraid he won't know Cantonese"

Linguistic unity is important, but so is linguistic identity.

[www.canton168.com]

Hi,

Being fascinated as always by the Cantonese language, it does lead to some interesting transliterations between Mandarin and Cantonese (and various regional dialects within China).

Some famous Chinese people who are mostly associated with Mandarin dialect:

Ziyi Zhang (actress)
Mandarin (Hanyu Pinyin): zhang1 zi3 yi2
Mandarin (Tongyong Pinyin): jhang1 zih3 yi2
Mandarin (Wade-Giles): chang1 tzu3 i2
Gwoyeu Romatzyh: Jang Tzyy-yi
Cantonese (Jyutping): zoeng1 zi2 ji4
Cantonese (Yale): jeung1 zi2 yi4

Hong-chih Kuo (baseball player)
Mandarin (Hanyu Pinyin): guo1 hong2 zhi4
Mandarin (Tongyong Pinyin): guo1 hong2 jhih4
Mandarin (Wade-Giles): kuo1 hung2 chih4
Gwoyeu Romatzyh: Guo Horng-jyh
Cantonese (Jyutping): gwo1 hung4 zi3
Cantonese (Yale): gwo1 hung4 ji3

Deng Xiaoping (politician / statesman / theorist / diplomat, 1904-1997)
Mandarin (Hanyu Pinyin): deng4 xiao3 ping2
Mandarin (Tongyong Pinyin): deng4 siao3 ping2
Mandarin (Wade-Giles): teng4 hsiao3 p'ing2
Gwoyeu Romatzyh: Denq Sheau-pyng
Cantonese (Jyutping): dang6 siu2 ping4

Chiang Kai-shek (Nationalist politician, 1887-1975)
Mandarin (Hanyu Pinyin): jiang3 jie4 shi2
Mandarin (Tongyong Pinyin): jiang3 jie4 shih2
Mandarin (Wade-Giles): chiang3 chieh4 shih2
Gwoyeu Romatzyh: Jeang Jieh-shyr
Cantonese (Jyutping): zoeng2 gaai3 sek6
Cantonese (Yale): jeung2 gaai3 sek6

And some Chinese/Taiwanese-Americans:

John Chiang (California politician, 1962-)
Mandarin (Hanyu Pinyin): jiang1 jun4 hui1
Mandarin (Tongyong Pinyin): jiang1 jun4 huei1
Mandarin (Wade-Giles): chiang1 chün4 hui1
Gwoyeu Romatzyh: Jiang Jiunn-huei
Cantonese (Jyutping): gong1 zeon6 fai1
Cantonese (Yale): gong1 jeun6 fai1

Connie Chung (news reporter, 1946-)
Mandarin (Hanyu Pinyin): zong1 yu4 hua2
Mandarin (Tongyong Pinyin): same
Mandarin (Wade-Giles): tsung1 yü4 hua2
Gwoyeu Romatzyh: Tzong Yuh-hwa
Cantonese (Jyutping): zung1 ju3 waa4
Cantonese (Yale): jung1 yu3 waa4
NAME NOTE: Normally her romanized name, Chung, would be derived from the Pinyin zhong1 (中; spelled jhong1 in Tongyong Pinyin), but the actual family name, zong1 (宗), is spelt "Tsung" in Wade-Giles. Don't be wrong. The "Chung" thing is probably a corruption in pronunciation of the "Ts" consonant digraph, which may be understandable somewhat as though just like how sometimes the letter "z" is mispronounced as a "j." The Jyutping "zung1" can be used to represent either "zong1" or "zhong1." Likewise, the Cantonese (Yale) equivalent "Jung" again can refer to either the Hanyu Pinyin "zong1" or "zhong1."

Furthermore, the "z / j" confusion also arises in the Japanese, Korean and Hindu languages, for there is no "z" or "dz" sound (in Japanese before the "i" vowel only, pronounced "ee" in English). The Korean and Hindu languages have no "z" sound at all (likewise, "s" is pronounced "sh" and "ts" is pronounced "ch"). This is why "pizza" is sometimes written "picha" and "zebra" is "jebra" in these dialects. The Greek letter Z, "zeta" becomes "jeta" in the same way. "Led Zeppelin" becomes "Red Jepperin" when spoken by a Korean.

~Ben

The threat of dialect extinction in Singapore can be attributed to one man - Lee Kuan Yew. It was him who placed the ban on dialects for broadcasting during his implementation for the "Speak Mandarin Campaign".

While he may have done Singapore more good than harm in transforming the nation to an economic power, some of his policies and opinionated tactics have irked many people, including many Singaporeans. His decision to censor dialects was one of them. And here is his baseless argument with regards to dialects:

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MINISTER Mentor Lee Kuan Yew yesterday reiterated his stand against Chinese dialects, saying that learning dialects adds to a child's burden.

Also, it takes away the child's time and energy from mastering English and Mandarin, he said.

In addition, English and Mandarin differ in their vocabulary, phonetics and syntax and adding on dialects will cause 'negative interferences' in the learning of the two languages, he added.

Where is "proof" that citizens learning dialect(s) will undermine or create an obstacle in them learning English and Mandarin? Is LKY somehow naive to believe that Singaporeans are only capable of learning & speaking two languages fluently? There are millions of people around the globe who can speak three to four languages or even more fluently. Let the parents or the child decide for themselves if they want to learn dialects. If parents find it unworthy to learn them, then they are the only ones to be blamed. But don't go around making statements to discourage those who want to learn to maintain close ties with their roots.

Shocking to see the so-called "Father of Singapore" is destroying the cultural roots of many Chinese Singaporeans. I can't help wonder if LKY's parents or grandparents were still alive and speaking to him in their native Hakka, would he be frowning at them for speaking the Hakka dialect?

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j40
Btw,I am making a super tonic exercise for Cantonese right now.

I don't know what that is but it sounds awesomesauce.

Btw,I am making a super tonic exercise for Cantonese right now.